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Planet Money

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Wanna see a trick? Give us any topic and we can tie it back to the economy. At Planet Money, we explore the forces that shape our lives and bring you along for the ride. Don't just understand the economy – understand the world. Wanna go deeper? Subscribe to Planet Money+ and get sponsor-free episodes of Planet Money, The Indicator, and Planet Money Summer School. Plus access to bonus content. It's a new way to support the show you love. Learn more at plus.npr.org/planetmoney

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Wanna see a trick? Give us any topic and we can tie it back to the economy. At Planet Money, we explore the forces that shape our lives and bring you along for the ride. Don't just understand the economy – understand the world. Wanna go deeper? Subscribe to Planet Money+ and get sponsor-free episodes of Planet Money, The Indicator, and Planet Money Summer School. Plus access to bonus content. It's a new way to support the show you love. Learn more at plus.npr.org/planetmoney

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@planetmoney

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English


Episodes
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When our inflation infeelings don’t match the CPI

8/15/2025
For most Americans, we just lived through the highest period of inflation in our lives. And we are reminded of this every time we go grocery shopping. All over TikTok, tons of people have posted videos of how little they got for … $20. $40. $100. Most upsetting to us: an $8 box of Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Food prices are almost 30% higher than they were five years ago. It’s bad. And those new, higher prices aren’t going away. At the same time, prices are no longer inflating at a wild pace. For the last two years, the rate of inflation has slowed way down. And yet, our fears or feelings that things will spiral out of control again? Those have not slowed down. This mismatch has been giving us all the …. feelings. Inflation feelings. Infeelings. On our latest show: we sort through our infeeltions. We talk to the economists who have studied us. We learn why our personal inflation calculators don’t always match the professional ones. Listen free at these links: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Find more Planet Money: Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. Support Planet Money, get bonus episodes and sponsor-free listening and now Summer School episodes one week early by subscribing to Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Duration:00:31:55

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What happens when governments cook the books

8/8/2025
After President Trump fired the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, economists and statisticians across the board were horrified. Because the firing raises the spectre of potential manipulation – and it raises the worry that, in the future, the numbers won't be as trustworthy. So: we looked at two countries that have some experience with data manipulation. To ask what happens when governments get tempted to cook the books. And...once they cook the books... how hard is it to UN-cook them? It's two statistical historical cautionary tales. First, we learn how Argentina tried to mask its true inflation rate, and how that effort backfired. Then, we hear about the difficult process of cleaning up the post-cooked-book mess, in Greece. For more: - Can we just change how we measure GDP? - The price of lettuce in Brooklyn - What really goes on at the Bureau of Labor Statistics (Update) - Can we still trust the monthly jobs report? (Update) - How office politics could take down Europe - The amazing shrinking economy might stop shrinking Listen free at these links: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Find more Planet Money: Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. Support Planet Money, get bonus episodes and sponsor-free listening and now Summer School episodes one week early by subscribing to Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Duration:00:34:51

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Summer School 6: When the markets need a designer

8/6/2025
In economics, a market is a place (even virtual) where buyers and sellers meet to exchange goods or services. Economists love markets. It's like all of our supply and demand graphs have come to life. Almost everything you buy goes through some sort of marketplace—your cup of coffee came from trading in the bean markets. Your spouse might have come from the dating marketplace on the apps. Even kids will tell you one Snickers is worth at least two Twix. But sometimes, as we'll see today, markets can go terribly wrong; greed can run out of control; lives can be at risk. That's when the government often steps in and gives the market a little nudge to work better. Today's episode: Market Design. The series is hosted by Robert Smith and produced by Eric Mennel. Our project manager is Devin Mellor. This episode was edited by Planet Money Executive Producer Alex Goldmark and fact-checked by Emily Crawford. Help support Planet Money and hear our bonus episodes by subscribing to Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney. Always free at these links: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Find more Planet Money: Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Duration:00:36:10

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Summer School 5: The many ways governments influence industry

8/6/2025
LIVE SHOW: August 18th in Brooklyn. Tickets here. Traditional economics says the market is guided by the forces of supply and demand. Customers decide what they want to buy, and private enterprise responds to that need. So what makes government think that it's smarter than capitalism? Why offer tax breaks to Hollywood or incentives to build silicon chip factories in Arizona? Why those industries and not others? And when does the free market fail and need government to step in? Today, we discuss what happens when the government really wants to get its hands dirty and shape the direction of the economy, even decide which companies should prosper and which ones should fail, through industrial policy. The series is hosted by Robert Smith and produced by Eric Mennel. Our project manager is Devin Mellor. This episode was edited by Planet Money Executive Producer Alex Goldmark and fact-checked by Emily Crawford. Help support Planet Money and hear our bonus episodes by subscribing to Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney. Always free at these links: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Find more Planet Money: Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Duration:00:36:21

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Would you trust an economist with your economy?

8/1/2025
Trust in experts is down. In all kinds of institutions and professions - in government, in media, in medical science... and lately, economists are feeling the burn acutely. In fact, President Trump just fired the economist who ran the Bureau of Labor Statistics, accusing her – with no evidence – of faking a jobs report that showed fewer gains than expected. In decades past, economists whispered in the ears of presidents. Now, many politicians and voters are disenchanted with the field. On today's show, we speak with economists about how distrust is messing with their minds and interfering with their work. Can they build up trust again? Today's episode was hosted by Amanda Aronczyk. It was produced by Sam Yellowhorse Kesler and edited by Marianne McCune with help from Jess Jiang. It was engineered by Robert Rodriguez and fact-checked by Sierra Juarez. Alex Goldmark is Planet Money's executive producer. Listen free at these links: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Find more Planet Money: Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. Support Planet Money, get bonus episodes and sponsor-free listening and now Summer School episodes one week early by subscribing to Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Duration:00:32:21

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Summer School 4: Who are all these regulations protecting?

7/30/2025
LIVE SHOW: August 18th in Brooklyn. Tickets here. There are occasional incentives in business that make it very profitable to do bad things; maybe cheat at the game and steal other people's ideas, or cut some corners on safety. In theory, the government as referee steps in to make the rules and enforce them, and manage competition in a way that hopefully makes things better for us all. But you have to ask... When is the government protecting you and when is it protecting the already rich and powerful? We'll meet a man trying to corner the market for frozen meat, with the help of patents. And then we'll head to the salon, and ask — Should the government really require dozens of hours of training for a license to braid hair? Get tickets to our August 18th live show and graduation ceremony at The Bell House, in Brooklyn. (Planet Money+ supporters get a 10 percent discount off their tickets. Listen to the July 8th bonus episode to get the code!) The series is hosted by Robert Smith and produced by Eric Mennel. Our project manager is Devin Mellor. This episode was edited by Planet Money Executive Producer Alex Goldmark and fact-checked by Sofia Shchukina. Help support Planet Money and hear our bonus episodes by subscribing to Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Duration:00:35:56

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The President's Golden Share in U.S. Steel

7/25/2025
LIVE SHOW ALERT: August 18th, NYC. Get your tickets here. When news broke that a Japanese company, Nippon Steel, was buying the storied American steel company U.S. Steel, it was still 2023, just before an election. And right away, politicians from both sides of the aisle came out forcefully against the deal, saying the company should remain American. Before leaving office, President Biden even blocked the sale. But in a dramatic twist a few weeks ago, President Trump approved it. With a caveat: the U.S. would get what Trump called 'a golden share' in U.S. Steel. On our latest show: what even is a "golden share"? When has it been used before, and why? And, could deals like this be a good way to get foreign investment in American manufacturing...or is it government overreach? Related episodes: - When Uncle Sam owned banks and factories - How Big Steel in the U.S. fell This episode was produced by Willa Rubin and edited by Marianne McCune. Research help from Emily Crawford and Emma Peaslee. It was fact-checked by Sierra Juarez and engineered by Robert Rodriguez. Alex Goldmark is our executive producer. Support Planet Money, get bonus episodes, sponsor-free listening and now Summer School episodes one week early by subscribing to Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney. Listen free at these links: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Find more Planet Money: Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Duration:00:28:22

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Summer School 3: How government decides what to spend our money on

7/23/2025
Although it seems like the government can spend an endless amount of money, it cannot actually do all the things it wants to do. So the big question in this week's lesson is: How do we decide? Why does the government spend so much money on some things and not on others? And honestly, is there any limit? Get tickets to our August 18th live show and graduation ceremony at The Bell House, in Brooklyn. (Planet Money+ supporters get a 10 percent discount off their tickets. Listen to the July 8th bonus episode to get the discount code!) The series is hosted by Robert Smith and produced by Eric Mennel. Our project manager is Devin Mellor. This episode was edited by Planet Money Executive Producer Alex Goldmark and fact-checked by Emily Crawford. Help support Planet Money and hear our bonus episodes by subscribing to Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney. Always free at these links: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Find more Planet Money: Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Duration:00:36:38

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Why are we so obsessed with manufacturing?

7/18/2025
It seems like politicians cannot agree on a lot. But many seem to agree on... manufacturing. Leaders of both political parties have been working to try and make the U.S. a manufacturing powerhouse again. On today's show, what is so special about manufacturing? Is it particularly important for the economy? And if manufacturing jobs are so great, then why have companies been struggling to fill the manufacturing jobs we already have? For more on manufacturing in the U.S: - Made in America, an episode about what manufacturing work in the U.S. can be like for garment workers and how much they're paid to make each piece of clothing "made in the U.S." - Why aren't Americans filling the manufacturing jobs we already have? - What makes manufacturing jobs special? The answer could help rebuild the middle class - Can bringing back manufacturing help the heartland catch up with 'superstar' cities? - And, for more, check out the Planet Money newsletter's manufacturing series at npr.org/manufacturing Find more Planet Money: Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. Listen free at these links: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Support Planet Money, get bonus episodes, sponsor-free listening, and now early access to new episodes of Summer School by signing up for Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or atplus.npr.org/planetmoney. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Duration:00:22:44

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Congress has voted to eliminate government funding for public media

7/18/2025
Act now to ensure public media remains free and accessible to all. Your donation will help this essential American service survive and thrive. Visit donate.npr.org now. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Duration:00:02:01

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Made in America

7/11/2025
What people might picture when they think of "Made in America" ... might not look like the "Made in America" we have today. The U.S. does have a domestic manufacturing industry, including a garment manufacturing industry. In today's episode: We buy a garment made by factory workers in the U.S. – a basic purple sports bra – and learn how many people it took to make it, how much workers got paid to work on it ... and whether garment manufacturing is a job Americans want, or even know how, to do. Plus: why domestic garment manufacturing exists at all in the U.S., and whether the industry can grow. Other episodes: - What "Made in China" actually means This episode was reported and hosted by Sarah Gonzalez. It was produced by Willa Rubin with production help from Emma Peaslee. It was edited by Marianne McCune, and it was fact-checked by Sierra Juarez who also helped with research. It was engineered by Robert Rodriguez. Alex Goldmark is our executive producer. Support Planet Money, get bonus episodes and sponsor-free listening and now Summer School episodes one week early by subscribing to Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney. Find more Planet Money: Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. Listen free at these links: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Help support Planet Money and hear our bonus episodes by subscribing to Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Duration:00:30:49

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Summer School 2: How taxes change behavior and the economy

7/9/2025
We all know the government uses taxes to pay for things. But what about using taxes to control behavior? This week on Summer School, Professor Darrick Hamilton of The New School, helps us explore the true power of the tax code. Can taxes help lift people out of poverty? What about saving the planet? Get tickets to our August 18th live show and graduation ceremony at The Bell House, in Brooklyn. (Planet Money+ supporters get a 10 percent discount off their tickets. Listen to the July 8th bonus episode to get the discount code!) The series is hosted by Robert Smith and produced by Eric Mennel. Our project manager is Devin Mellor. This episode was edited by Planet Money Executive Producer Alex Goldmark and fact-checked by Emily Crawford and Sierra Juarez. Engineering by Robert Rodriguez. Always free at these links: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Find more Planet Money: Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. Help support Planet Money and hear our bonus episodes by subscribing to Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Duration:00:37:10

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Summer School 1: A government's role in the economy is to make us all richer

7/9/2025
Government. The Big G. We like to imagine the free market and the invisible hand as being independent from political influence. But Nobel laureate, Simon Johnson, says that influence has been there since the birth of economics. Call it political economy. Call it government and business. Call it our big topic each Wednesday through Labor Day. We're kicking off another semester of Planet Money Summer School asking the biggest question: Why are some nations rich and others poor? With stories from India, New York City and Peru, we look at the ways in which government bureaucracy can help make or break an economy. Tickets for Planet Money Live at the Bell House available here. Planet Money+ supporters get a 10 percent discount off their tickets. Go to plus.npr.org to sign up, if you haven't already, and listen to the July 8th bonus episode to get the discount code. Always free at these links: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Find more Planet Money: Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. Planet Money+ supporters get early access to new episodes of Summer School this season! You also get sponsor-free listening, regular bonus episodes, and you'll help support the work of Planet Money. Sign up for Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Duration:00:35:46

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The simple math of the big bill

7/4/2025
If we think about the economic effects of President Donald Trumps big taxing and spending and domestic policy bill, we can roughly sum it up in one line. It goes something like this: We will make many big tax cuts permanent and pay for those tax cuts by cutting Medicaid and a few other things and also...by borrowing money. A lot of money. Even more than we've already been borrowing over the past twenty years. (And that was already a lot, too!) Today: simple arithmetic with profound ramifications. Tax cuts, spending cuts, and whether they balance out. (Spoiler: no.) We look under the hood to see how all this is calculated. And we ask: how will a bigger deficit play out for all of us, in our normal, regular lives? We've covered a bunch more having to do with the big taxing and spending bill and the federal debt recently on Planet Money and our short daily show The Indicator: - So, how's this No Tax On Tips thing gonna go? - A thought experiment on how to fix the national debt problem - The paperwork trap: A sneaky way to cut Medicaid in the 'One Big Beautiful Bill'? - The debt limit, the origins of the X Date, and why it all matters - What's a revenge tax? - Is the federal debt REALLY that bad? Support Planet Money, get bonus episodes and sponsor-free listening and now Summer School episodes one week early by subscribing to Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney. Listen free at these links: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Duration:00:32:12

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A thought experiment on how to fix the national debt problem

7/2/2025
There's an economic fantasy you sometimes hear in D.C. It often gets trotted out when politicians are trying to add billions or trillions to the national debt. They claim that all the new spending will be worth it in the end because we will supercharge economic growth. This fantasy recurs again and again, because economic growth is a potent force. Over the next few decades, tiny changes in how fast our economy grows could decide the fate of the federal government — whether we can bring the massive national debt under control or whether we spiral into a fiscal crisis. Today on the show, we talk to three economists who have been sifting through the latest evidence. They're trying to figure out what the government could actually do to make the economy grow faster. Could we even grow fast enough to outrun our national debt? For a list of citations, check out our episode page. This episode of Planet Money was produced by Emma Peaslee with help from Sam Yellowhorse Kesler. It was edited by Jess Jiang. It was fact-checked by Sierra Juarez and engineered by Ko Takasugi-Czernowin. Alex Goldmark is Planet Money's executive producer. Find more Planet Money: Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. Listen free at these links: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Help support Planet Money and hear our bonus episodes by subscribing to Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Duration:00:25:32

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When Trump met crypto

6/27/2025
In 2019, President Trump tweeted: "I am not a fan of Bitcoin and other Cryptocurrencies." Today, the Trumps are all over crypto. There are memecoins for Trump and the first lady. They own a stablecoin, a bitcoin mining operation, and a crypto financial services company. And, at the Bitcoin 2025 conference, Trump's media group announced they're raising 2.5 billion dollars from investors to buy bitcoin. At that same conference, speakers included two White House advisors, two sons of the US president, the son of the U.S. Commerce Secretary, and a Trump appointee to the Securities and Exchange Commission. For a cryptocurrency built on independence from big government, this was a swerve. So, what happens when the President of the United States showers his love on the crypto community ... while also becoming a crypto entrepreneur himself? We follow along as Trump Inc.'s Ilya Marritz and Andrea Bernstein spend three days at the Las Vegas conference center where convicts are cheered, oversight and regulation are booed, and the separation of crypto and state no longer applies. Find more Planet Money: Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. Listen free at these links: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Help support Planet Money and hear our bonus episodes by subscribing to Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Duration:00:31:55

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Econ Battle Zone: Budget Showdown

6/25/2025
Econ Battle Zone is back! On today's episode Mary Childs and Kenny Malone enter Econ Battle Stadium to throw down against reigning champion Erika Beras. Can Mary explain what effect extending the 2017 tax cuts will have on economic growth AND make her entire segment rhyme? Will Erika be able to overcome her fear of singing and craft a country song about the history of Medicaid? Can Kenny put together a piece about what warning signs economists look for to know whether the national debt has grown too large... but as a romantic comedy? Guest judges Betsey Stevenson and David Kestenbaum face a difficult choice... but only one contestant can claim the coveted Econ Battle Zone Belt. Artists featured in this episode: Rexx Life Raj (IG: @rexxliferaj); Merle Hazard; Alison Brown; Tristan Scroggins; Matt Coles; and Garry West. Special thanks to Liz Garton Scanlon, Robin Rudowitz and Sarah Rosenbaum. Find more Planet Money: Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. Listen free at these links: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Help support Planet Money and hear our bonus episodes by subscribing to Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Duration:00:38:41

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The U.S. is the world's bribery cop. Is that about to change?

6/20/2025
The U.S. has been policing bribery all over the world for nearly half a century using a law called the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. But now, President Trump has said that this anti-corruption law is crippling American businesses. Since taking office, his administration has reduced the number of investigators, killed some cases, and changed the rules. In this episode, we look at the FCPA case against Glencore, a large commodity trading company, found guilty in 2022 for paying cash bribes in exchange for lucrative contracts all over the world. And we go back to the inception of the law, a time when using bribes to pay off foreign officials was considered "grease in the wheels" - a reasonable (if unethical) way to get business done. This episode was hosted by Amanda Aronczyk and Erika Beras. It was produced by Willa Rubin. It was fact-checked by Emily Crawford with help from Willa Rubin. It was edited by Marianne McCune. It was engineered by James Willetts. Alex Goldmark is Planet Money's executive producer. Find more Planet Money: Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. Listen free at these links: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Help support Planet Money and hear our bonus episodes by subscribing to Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Duration:00:28:07

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Jay & Shai's debt ceiling adventure (Update)

6/18/2025
Note: A version of this episode first ran in 2023. Every year, the U.S. government spends more money than it takes in. In order to fund all that spending, the country takes on debt. Congress has the power to limit how much debt the U.S. takes on. Once we reach that limit, Congress has a few options so that the government keeps paying its bills: Raise the debt limit, suspend it, or eliminate it entirely. Which is daunting, because if lawmakers don't figure something out in time, the ramifications for the global economy could be huge. Shai Akabas, of the Bipartisan Policy Center, has become something of the go-to expert in calculating the exact date America would hit the wall and not be able to pay all its debts. This day is so terrifying it has a special name, the X-Date. Today's episode is about how Akabas and Jay Powell — long before he became chair of the Federal Reserve — worked to create a system to determine the X-Date with the hope of helping us all never reach it. We also have an update on this year's looming X-Date, which could arrive as soon as this summer. Find more Planet Money: Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. Listen free at these links: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Help support Planet Money and hear our bonus episodes by subscribing to Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Duration:00:30:19

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Why I joined DOGE

6/13/2025
What was it like to work inside Elon Musk's DOGE? The cost-cutting initiative promised transparency, but most of its actions have been shrouded in secrecy. For months, there were reports of software engineers and Trump loyalists entering agencies and accessing sensitive data. DOGE also helped the Trump administration lay off thousands of government workers. NPR reporters have been trying for months to get anyone from DOGE to talk on the record. Now, Sahil Lavingia, a former DOGE staffer assigned to the Department of Veteran Affairs, is speaking. Today, what drew Sahil to DOGE and what he learned about the inner workings, in a way we've never heard before. For more on DOGE and the federal workforce: - The last time we shrank the federal workforce - Can... we still trust the monthly jobs report? - Can the Federal Reserve stay independent? This episode was hosted by Kenny Malone and Bobby Allyn. It was produced by Sam Yellowhorse Kesler and Emma Peaslee. It was edited by Jess Jiang and fact-checked by Sierra Juarez. It was engineered by Neal Rauch. Alex Goldmark is Planet Money's executive producer. Find more Planet Money: Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. Listen free at these links: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Help support Planet Money and hear our bonus episodes by subscribing to Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Duration:00:27:25